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    21st Century Ideas: Quantum Government?

    What would post-Newtonian politics look like?

    Started by: Lord Samwise Raves:6 Badge Winner! Emergensight

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    I think that this is one of the most interesting concepts in Superstruct, but I've seen no discussions on the subject as yet, so consider this a starting point. From my understanding, quantum theory centres on unpredictable relationships between discrete packets of energy. The first part of this - unpredictability - is what makes pos-Newtonian government such a challenge: how can we create policies and systems when we can't predict the outcome of any given course of action? I've got some more ideas and questions, but that will do as a starter. As anyone got any greater insight or ideas?

    The key to avoiding power hungry people from taking control of government functions is to have even greater checks and balances- i.e. instead of having three branches, have something like five or seven. Instead of having one president, have three. This would provide some of the necessary unpredictability that you refer samwise.

    I thought about this very idea extensively the other night, and I came to some curious ideas. While the quantum scale appears extremely chaotic, what we see are precise -- though counter-intuitive rules -- governing behavior. One the key re-framing ideas comes with the uncertainty principle and lights ability to be both a wave and a particle. The rule we see here is that instead of the traditional either/or rule we have a both/and rule. Government is currently institutional, operating in the either/or model. What would it take to create a system of government that would be both/and? For starters, might this be a government with no established institution concomitantly run by all participants simultaneously? Surprisingly, the internet and telecommunications is on its way to enabling this.

    my word this is hard for me to get my fat head round but it's great.

    'Both/And' (or 'Yep' as Rob Bell once defined it) is a real challenge, isn't it? I like the idea of a non-institutional society engaged in voluntary, even spontaneous, self-government. Just as some particles seem to come and go, perhaps such a society would intuitively create the offices and legislature necessary to perform a given task, and those offices would then voluntary dissolve themselves once their functions were completed. Of course, such a change would require not only a revolution in government, but also in the basic human condition. The role of checks and balances would indeed need to be improved, Horizon. In Quantum Theory, fields/particles exist in Supersymmetry - that is, every field/particle is balanced by its opposite / twin / another. Presumably, we could work such a system into our Quantum Government, with groups/bodies/individuals given power in symmetry with counterbalanced groups/bodies/individuals? Arguable, this could lead to stalemate and stagnation, but it seems to work in Quantum mechanics, so there must be a way to make it work here...

    We can put our government officials into a box - and then shoot the box, now we have the paradox which was demonstrated by Shrodinger (albeit he used a more innocent creature - a cat) in which the government officials are both alive and dead at the same time - and I think this will give them access to what's happening all around them as they make their decisions.

    That's certainly one approach, PonyXpress...

    Obviously politics has been deeply affected by the inability of politicians to edit or delete their ancient Facebook pages. And if they never made one, assumptions will be made from that. Facebook once set up by CIA interfered companies to build social networking sites to their mutual benefit has become a powerful political tool.

    What Lord Samwise has suggested is simply classical anarchist theory, a la Kropotkin and Bakunin. If you are interested in that sort of thing, I would suggest reading them. As a word to the wise, though, it didn't work in the nineteenth or the twentieth centuries; I wouldn't expect much of it in the twenty-first.

    you are quite right Race Brunton, anarchism is by far the coolest is the isms.

    Well, I'm aware of Anarchism and that's not really what I'm interested in. I am simply trying to explore one of the key questions of the game - I'm pretty sure Bakunin didn't base his philosophy on quantum mechanics....

    Here are some of my other thoughts on the subject - not anarchic, but perhaps nnot sufficiently radical? Packets of energy – fields/particles = people – all shapes and sizes and creeds Not ‘either/or’, but Both/And Relational – particles/people exist in community; discrete yet deeply interdependent Entanglement – relationships are symbiotic, (checked &) balanced, super-symmetrical, integrated - actions have consquences Unpredictable? – or perhaps just infinitely more complex than previously realised – recognising that every action can have unexpected and exotic consequences Observation – can change outcomes/natures/properties (for the better?) – need for mutual accountability Systems / fields / complexity – biological / ecological model – self-organising, mutually beneficial, self-regulating – humanity may be the pinnacle of creation, but it cannot survive without the other elements in the system – no more hyper-exploitation of resources / each other. Need to understand the whole. String Theory – everything connected by unifying threads – a central purpose / philosophy holding it all together? Undeniable element of faith / spirituality – we can’t know for certain, we simply believe that this is how it is…

    We've talked a little about the philosophies of quantum government, but what policies would such a system implement?

    City-state model this is an enjoyable idea. For a start it's graspable - which is not usually a strength of quantum anything. Graspability is valuable because it is what will release energy in the system. If people are particles then they need to be zipping around if quantam governance is going to work (stretching the physics metaphor well beyond what's decent). It should be fairly easy to generate loyalty to a city-state, and from loyalty comes commitment to make its institutions work. It's also easily contrastable as a unit of organisation with the nation-state, which most people seem to have given up caring about, and least in the sense that they care to participate in politics. And quite rightly too, politics is done by small groups of well paid lobbyists moving in tiny geographical and social circles of influence. The city-state offers an opportunity to break those circles, if only by balancing them. There is probably lots of supporting evidence for city-states in economics and human geography. Regions (city states in all but name) are often talked about as units of regeneration, and how different would city states be from federal models of regional government in Germany, the US, or indeed the city states of Italy? What would be unusual (?) would be for these city-states to be given enough power to form their own supra-national constellations at the expense of their "host" nations. There is lots of opportunity for unpredictable outcomes. For example London and New York might form an alliance for their own mutual benefit which would certainly be too great for any counterweight from continental europe, while Californian cities are most likely to form alliances around the pacific rim. In truth, most of this probably happens unofficialy already, certainly given the lobbying weight that bankers in London and New York are able to throw around. The idea of city-states puts lots into play, which has a very quantum feel, but study of Machiavelli and the Renaissance might also be a good idea.

    What about non-geographical Governments? What if they only governed what you chose to suscribe to? If Government was no different to other service providers?

    What about non-geographical Governments? What if they only governed what you chose to suscribe to? If Government was no different to other service providers?

    Ah - you mean like the idea of a "Panarchy" - you choose what government you belong to. You can choose whether to belong to a highly capitalist government, a socialist government, a highly democratic state, or even a dictatorship. You choose a state to belong to, and then live under its laws, paying taxes to and receiving benefits from it. It's a beautiful idea, but in practise living next door to people who live under a different government's laws and dealing with grievances as international politics could be very difficult indeed. The athenian style of democracy worked well for a small city state with an educated electorate in Ancient Greece. In the 21st century, with mass education and with electronic communication technology, it could be possible to revive this form of government for a modern country.

    I think the city-state model looks like a practical option - people in one city-state could still associate themselves with foreign conglomerations and ideologies (bringing what they see as the strengths of that system into their local structres through democratic contribution, if they choose), but ultimately each local system needs its constituents to have a commonality for it to funtion effectively.

    Let's Go Quantum Bonkers! Having come up with something remarkably sensible in city-states, this section is to apply ideas from quantum physics to government in the most wilfully bizarre way possible. Such ideas should stay within the bounds of this section [in the superstruct wiki], but in best quantum fashion, who knows where they may end up.

    Hey listen - there are connections to be explored with this brainiac group and the artists and creatives who are also toying around with Big Picture Thinking. Visit Quantum Connections and its partners on the Reconstruct site: www.sstruct.com

    with their flowing routes and interconnected ways Whales most likely have something to add to this discussion. Contact the folks at AnimalSpeakers for accessibility.

    Hi! I have been working on Government, Inc. together with the Rook Parliament superstructs (http://struct.ning.com/group/govtinc) ... come have a look! I think it's defilitely relevant...

    The theory is almost complete, but we need policies to bring our vision to life! Read our exciting plans for quantum economics and share your ideas on the most important element of all - the slogan that will carry our quantum manifesto out of the forums and into the streets!

    Is it possible to have a Declaration of Quantum Governance: "We hold _all_ truths to be self-evident..."? Maybe that's a bit Newtonian, but a short statement of principles would be useful. A flag might be easier, and I propose something modelled on the maps of particles and their tracks [an example is linked from the Q Govt superstruct page]. We'll call this flag "the constellation" just because it's a nice word with positive poetic associations. But the look of this flag is completely open to interpretation by anyone who wants to. Artists, designers and infants school children can represent a constellation of particles and their tracks in any way they like, and if they say its our flag, its our flag. All that a city needs to do to declare its quantum status is take down the national flag and fly a constellation flag over its town hall. From then on its a quantum city and can begin linking with any, all or no other quantum cities it likes, anywhere in the world.

    i think that there are some fascinating posts in this section. very inspiring ideas. i think, though, that the development of post-newtonian government will not occur by such direct means. even if most governments don't undergo radical change (e.g., formally adopt new methods of legislation), we will see significant illustrations of post-newtonian government: government is a social structure architected by a system of rules and, like it or not, this social structure is highly influenced by a few key factors: (1) fund development and financial resources, (2) public image and constituent support, (3) political alliances, and (4) the system of rules itself. we are just beginning to see the effects that our increasingly hyper-connected world is having on this social structure. it is introducing new dynamics. this, in itself, will be a powerful change. and, in response to blackenedrosethorn, this will not be akin to chaos. it will continue to act as a complex adaptive system, albeit with a much faster rate of adaptation. this social structure will continue to progress according to its system of rules. ..that's my two cents.




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